The Nondual Matrix

topic posted Fri, April 27, 2007 - 11:38 AM by  Unsubscribed
In the DVD set of The Matrix Trilogy, there is a feature that can be chosen where Ken Wilbur does a philosophical commentary on the flick as it goes along (kind of like Mystery Science Theater 3000.)

My favorite comment of his was in the classic moment where Morpheus is offering the two pills:

Morpheus: "You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

Wilbur: "Why not just take BOTH pills?"

Brilliant!
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  • Re: The Nondual Matrix

    Tue, May 1, 2007 - 10:49 AM
    Because then you would be Vinnie, me and everyone on Tribe and beyond, and why go see this movie?
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: The Nondual Matrix

      Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:17 AM
      I'm still trying to get past the fact that I keep buying into my own movie. I need the red pill, the blue pill AND the yellow and green pills as well.
      • Re: The Nondual Matrix

        Tue, May 1, 2007 - 12:06 PM
        Is this a concept only you can understand?
        We may have something, if that's the case...
        • Re: The Nondual Matrix

          Tue, May 1, 2007 - 12:38 PM
          Vinny may have an important piece of the puzzle...
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: The Nondual Matrix

            Tue, May 1, 2007 - 12:54 PM
            Not so much Vinnie, who is mostly clueless, but perhaps the Unknowable Thing that is driving this virtual-reality "Vinnie" through the holographic landscape he experiences. That puts "me" in a state of pure duality, doesn't it? There's me and then there's Me. Today, I'm me. I can tell because I'm depressed as all fuckout.
            • Re: The Nondual Matrix

              Tue, May 1, 2007 - 1:49 PM
              ...and non dualistic in realizing, but dualistic in seeing or expressing your current perpetual joy.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: The Nondual Matrix

                Tue, May 1, 2007 - 3:20 PM
                I'm not sure I understood that, but it seems worth investigating, in any case.
                • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                  Tue, May 1, 2007 - 3:26 PM
                  Well, isn't there one Multiverse where you are always happy?
                  Is that a duality, and if so, a non duality?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: The Nondual Matrix

                    Tue, May 1, 2007 - 3:57 PM
                    To tell the truth, I wouldn't know. My existential looking only tells me one thing that I'm sure of. That I exist. However, I can't even provide proof of that. I just seem to know it. But a Multiverse where I am always happy? No idea...
                    • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                      Tue, May 1, 2007 - 4:13 PM
                      How does that relate to the proportion of our understanding of this feeling of existiance?
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: The Nondual Matrix

                        Tue, May 1, 2007 - 9:18 PM
                        My very existence is the one important thing that is known to me beyond feelings. As to how it relates...I have no clue. But then, I'm not in a very thinky mood today.
                        • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                          Tue, May 1, 2007 - 9:29 PM
                          I'm not either.
                          My existance is always overshadowed over wondering about things. At least much of the time.
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: The Nondual Matrix

                            Tue, May 1, 2007 - 9:37 PM
                            That sounds cool to me. There seems to be no lack of things to feel wonder about while we're inhabiting infinity. I think the state of wonderment is intimately connected to essence and being.
                            • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                              Tue, May 1, 2007 - 10:28 PM
                              I feel that I can be o.k. with how I understand existance, but the awareness that we may understand do little is always there for me.
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                Tue, May 1, 2007 - 10:33 PM
                                Could you rephrase that? I'm not sure I quite understood the second half of what you said.
                                • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                  Tue, May 1, 2007 - 10:46 PM
                                  I have to stop typing fast on this bad shelf.
                                  I meant that I am always trying to balance the awareness of how much we don't know about existance with the security that what we do know at this point in the human race, (or at least the common knowledge) and try to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations.
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                    Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:06 PM
                                    I think I get this.

                                    It's been my contention that the truth is known--utterly known--to everyone. But the truth *appears* (I stress that word) to be ominous. So, the coating over reality--usually called "ego"--takes charge so as to quell the terror of even basic existential reality. Notions, for example, that we die at some given point, or that the physical universe looks to be apparently infinite, or that we really DON'T know what God is, or how the hell we wound up encased in physical bodies that behave on their own accord (we don't pump our own blood, or make our hearts beat, etc.)

                                    The comfort people look for is inevitably ephemeral and people also know this truth as well, (deep in their own heart-of-hearts.) Personally, for me, existential awareness was somehow "forced" on me. I don't know how or why, but it certainly was, because I lived a good deal of my life in raw terror. No kidding.

                                    Now, after all of these years, I do find a comfortable place in the not-knowing. I find it, in fact, that it somehow eases me. One of my other contentions is that pure, raw, existential awareness is STEP ONE on the path to awakening with a capital "A."

                                    I think I got off topic there, but the idea got me going...
                                    • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                      Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:24 PM
                                      Me too.
                                      I always felt I owed for existance.
                                      Sometimes, (like when I was posting all the time, and looking more for things) I like to leave the house in the morning and try to walk by instinct. So many interesting things happen.
                                      • Unsu...
                                         

                                        Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                        Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:33 PM
                                        Yeah. You're in New York (my home town.) I remember going for those walks for those interesting things that were bound to happen. Now I've been living in L.A. for the past 15 years or so. You go for a walk out here and what's interesting is that everyone else on the street is psychotic and mumbling to themselves, or selling crack.

                                        Car culture truly sucks.
                                        • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                          Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:40 PM
                                          Why is that just in LA?
                                          I'm here now and notice friendly clean cut kids, some of the kinds of people who were here when I lived here, and the types you mention. With cultural differences, the balances seem similiar everywhere.
                                          • Unsu...
                                             

                                            Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                            Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:44 PM
                                            Have you been to LA? I"m sure you have. The Boulevards are wide and go on forever, in a city that mostly shuts down at 10pm. Unless you go to places like Santa Monica, Silverlake or Venice (where I live) you simply don't belong on the streets if you're 'normal.' Right now I can walk a block to Lincoln Boulevard and walk the streets. There will not be anything friendly there. No normal family people, no teens (unless they're in gangs.) Just psychos, junkies, crackheads.

                                            Yes, NYC had the reputation for mean streets and all that, but at least you had a cross section of every walk of life there. Here, it's just one ilk: no one you'd go out for beers with.
                                            • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                              Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:50 PM
                                              Here, I like the knowledge the weather won't change, the gangbangers can be fun and/or interesting, not my type.
                                              In both places you can blend in and not be self conscious, but in smaller towns you can really feel comfortable. I can't get away from the mixed bag thing. I like living and traveling around the country, so I can learn about that.
                                              • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                                Thu, June 28, 2007 - 10:58 AM
                                                Would non duality be the realization that things go in cycles, transcending the duality of seeing existance get better and worse simultaniously?
                                                • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                                  Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:48 AM
                                                  that's non-linearity ~ but close.....

                                                  better and worse and something else and other stuff ~ leaving open the possibilities for even more that won't compromise the integrity of all the rest ~ all existing in the same time/space ~ that's more multi-dimensional ~ get it?

                                                  love all-ways,
                                                  mem
                                                  • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                                    Fri, June 29, 2007 - 10:25 AM
                                                    I do, but when I understand what you are saying, isn't that only a fracture of the whole idea?
                                                    Wouldn't the non duality become duality once I understood that, to a point?
                                                    • Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                                      Fri, June 29, 2007 - 10:36 AM
                                                      multi-dimensionality (the term "non-duality" is so confining & dualistic!) includes/accepts duality ~ but goes beyond it, also

                                                      remember Venn diagrams & set theory, from math class? a smaller circle inside a larger circle ~ the larger circle includes everything in the smaller circle, even tho the smaller circle has a defined boundary (also included inside the larger circle)

                                                      love all-ways,
                                                      mem
                                                      • Unsu...
                                                         

                                                        Re: The Nondual Matrix

                                                        Fri, June 29, 2007 - 8:16 PM
                                                        My personal feeling is that nonduality, however ironic the term may be, refers to a state of, and definitely not a set of ideas about, the experience of the unity of reality. Nonduality, in its purest expression is the experience of something to the effect of:

                                                        "There is nothing that happens to you that isn't already you."

                                                        Even the notion called 'existentialism' has an irony about it as well. I always joke that the one big mistake the existential philosophers made was that they even wrote about it at all. I once had an existential opening that caused me to truly suspect that the very door to mystical, nondual experience, is first and foremost, the existential experience. Ken Wilbur tends to agree when he maps that idea out in his book, "A Brief History Of Everything."


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